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	<title>Comments on: Disappointed</title>
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	<description>&#34;You Two! We&#039;re at the end of the universe, eh. Right at the edge of knowledge itself. And you&#039;re busy... blogging!&#34; — The Doctor, Utopia</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://travelinlibrarian.info/2006/08/disappointed_14/comment-page-1/#comment-336</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I don&#039;t believe in charging guests to use the internet.  I live in a state where almost all libraries have a recipricol agreement.  But we still have folks who for whatever reasons don&#039;t have a library card (they don&#039;t want the governement tracking their internet use, they have fines, so pretend they don&#039;t have a card, a parent doesn&#039;t have time to come in and sign for a child, etc.)  We make our &quot;guest cards&quot; much less desireable than a real library card (30 minutes a day, no extensions, vs. 3 60-minute sessions provided no one is waiting; all guest cards are filtered whereas regular users pick if they want filtered or unfiltered access).  We have another option:  visitor cards.  These are designed for people who will be in the area only for a short time (&quot;I&#039;m here only for a semester as a student.&quot;  or &quot;I&#039;m in town visiting for three weeks&quot;)  Those customers put down a $5 deposit, have full computer use, may borrow up to 5 books, and receive their deposit back when the turn in their books and the card.  Obviously that wouldn&#039;t work for 30,000 daily cruise ship tourists, but it works for a lot of other people.  One last thought -- many of the people who request guest cards would never be able to afford $6/hour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t believe in charging guests to use the internet.  I live in a state where almost all libraries have a recipricol agreement.  But we still have folks who for whatever reasons don&#8217;t have a library card (they don&#8217;t want the governement tracking their internet use, they have fines, so pretend they don&#8217;t have a card, a parent doesn&#8217;t have time to come in and sign for a child, etc.)  We make our &#8220;guest cards&#8221; much less desireable than a real library card (30 minutes a day, no extensions, vs. 3 60-minute sessions provided no one is waiting; all guest cards are filtered whereas regular users pick if they want filtered or unfiltered access).  We have another option:  visitor cards.  These are designed for people who will be in the area only for a short time (&#8220;I&#8217;m here only for a semester as a student.&#8221;  or &#8220;I&#8217;m in town visiting for three weeks&#8221;)  Those customers put down a $5 deposit, have full computer use, may borrow up to 5 books, and receive their deposit back when the turn in their books and the card.  Obviously that wouldn&#8217;t work for 30,000 daily cruise ship tourists, but it works for a lot of other people.  One last thought &#8212; many of the people who request guest cards would never be able to afford $6/hour.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://travelinlibrarian.info/2006/08/disappointed_14/comment-page-1/#comment-315</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Aug 2006 17:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://travelinlibrarian.info/wordpress/2006/08/disappointed.html#comment-315</guid>
		<description>Mike,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I see the charge for borrowing privileges a totally different issue. I don&#039;t particularly like that sort of charge but I understand it since you&#039;re allowing a non-resident to remove material from your library and, by the fact that they don&#039;t live in your standard service area, the chance of the item not being returned in a timely manner is (somewhat) increased.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;However, no library charges non-residents to use material in the library. The computers are in the library and not allowed to be removed, so why should they be treated differently from books?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;However, let me repeat that I&#039;m glad you&#039;re asking your board to change the policy. &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.travelinlibrarian.info/2006/08/post-falls-public-library.html&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;As I blogged just this morning&lt;/a&gt;, Post Falls Public Library allows anyone from anywhere to get borrowing privileges. Maybe you can discuss the issues with them and use them as an example for your board.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;If the board does not decide to change the policy might I suggest that the sign regarding the policy be at least reworded into something much more friendly to visitors to your town as others have suggested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike,</p>
<p>I see the charge for borrowing privileges a totally different issue. I don&#8217;t particularly like that sort of charge but I understand it since you&#8217;re allowing a non-resident to remove material from your library and, by the fact that they don&#8217;t live in your standard service area, the chance of the item not being returned in a timely manner is (somewhat) increased.</p>
<p>However, no library charges non-residents to use material in the library. The computers are in the library and not allowed to be removed, so why should they be treated differently from books?</p>
<p>However, let me repeat that I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;re asking your board to change the policy. <a HREF="http://www.travelinlibrarian.info/2006/08/post-falls-public-library.html" REL="nofollow" rel="nofollow">As I blogged just this morning</a>, Post Falls Public Library allows anyone from anywhere to get borrowing privileges. Maybe you can discuss the issues with them and use them as an example for your board.</p>
<p>If the board does not decide to change the policy might I suggest that the sign regarding the policy be at least reworded into something much more friendly to visitors to your town as others have suggested.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Doellman</title>
		<link>http://travelinlibrarian.info/2006/08/disappointed_14/comment-page-1/#comment-312</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Doellman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://travelinlibrarian.info/wordpress/2006/08/disappointed.html#comment-312</guid>
		<description>About the fees charged non-resident, non-taxpaying users of public libraries:  this is common practice.  I&#039;ve worked in public libraries for more than 30 years, in Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, and now Idaho and in three of the four states non-residents were charged for a card (unless reciprocal borrowing arrangements were in effect).  For instance, when I was in Indiana, St Joseph County Public Library charged residents of (I believe it was) Greene Township for a card because Greene Township, although in St. Joe County, had elected not to pay the tax to support SJCPL.  The same thing was true in Elkhart -- people might live across a street would be in a township without library service, their neighbor could get a card because the township line went down the middle of the road.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Mike Doellman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About the fees charged non-resident, non-taxpaying users of public libraries:  this is common practice.  I&#8217;ve worked in public libraries for more than 30 years, in Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, and now Idaho and in three of the four states non-residents were charged for a card (unless reciprocal borrowing arrangements were in effect).  For instance, when I was in Indiana, St Joseph County Public Library charged residents of (I believe it was) Greene Township for a card because Greene Township, although in St. Joe County, had elected not to pay the tax to support SJCPL.  The same thing was true in Elkhart &#8212; people might live across a street would be in a township without library service, their neighbor could get a card because the township line went down the middle of the road.</p>
<p>Mike Doellman</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://travelinlibrarian.info/2006/08/disappointed_14/comment-page-1/#comment-311</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 14:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://travelinlibrarian.info/wordpress/2006/08/disappointed.html#comment-311</guid>
		<description>One more thought from Idaho:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I work in an academic library, not public, but from having been involved in statewide access issues I know that a significant percentage of Idaho residents have NO public library service.  A great many public libraries in Idaho charge a fee, such as $75 per year, for access by those who don&#039;t live within their taxing/service district.  Why?  People a few miles away who don&#039;t have library service, and who consistently vote against creating library service, hit them hard for services.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;As to free internet access at the university, anyone can walk into the library and use any of our 70 or so workstations for Word, Excel, PowerPoint, or internet access.  If we&#039;re very crowded at term paper time, we ask the non-university people to relinquish their seat. This doesn&#039;t happen often.  There is no time limit on use of the workstations for anybody. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;However, for one to access the campus network, wired or wireless, from their own laptop, they have to authenticate with their university logon and password.  This is a campus security requirement, and is not determined by the library.  We refer those who want open access with their laptops to the public library, about a mile away, that has such access (though it is filtered)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Our access for visitors is simpler than it is at Idaho State, as we don&#039;t require logins to use the computer.  Some of our non-university users are regulars, and may camp out for several hours a day.  Again, if they don&#039;t cause any problems or we&#039;re not overly crowded, it is just not an issue.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Dan Lester, dlester@boisestate.edu</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more thought from Idaho:</p>
<p>I work in an academic library, not public, but from having been involved in statewide access issues I know that a significant percentage of Idaho residents have NO public library service.  A great many public libraries in Idaho charge a fee, such as $75 per year, for access by those who don&#8217;t live within their taxing/service district.  Why?  People a few miles away who don&#8217;t have library service, and who consistently vote against creating library service, hit them hard for services.  </p>
<p>As to free internet access at the university, anyone can walk into the library and use any of our 70 or so workstations for Word, Excel, PowerPoint, or internet access.  If we&#8217;re very crowded at term paper time, we ask the non-university people to relinquish their seat. This doesn&#8217;t happen often.  There is no time limit on use of the workstations for anybody. </p>
<p>However, for one to access the campus network, wired or wireless, from their own laptop, they have to authenticate with their university logon and password.  This is a campus security requirement, and is not determined by the library.  We refer those who want open access with their laptops to the public library, about a mile away, that has such access (though it is filtered)</p>
<p>Our access for visitors is simpler than it is at Idaho State, as we don&#8217;t require logins to use the computer.  Some of our non-university users are regulars, and may camp out for several hours a day.  Again, if they don&#8217;t cause any problems or we&#8217;re not overly crowded, it is just not an issue.</p>
<p>Dan Lester, <a href="mailto:dlester@boisestate.edu">dlester@boisestate.edu</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://travelinlibrarian.info/2006/08/disappointed_14/comment-page-1/#comment-310</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 03:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://travelinlibrarian.info/wordpress/2006/08/disappointed.html#comment-310</guid>
		<description>100% of the money we receive is from from property taxes.  (Currently there is a revolt against high property taxes in Idaho and the Governor has called a special session of the Legislature to &quot;repair&quot; the property tax system.  Frankly, Idaho doesn&#039;t have a clue about what constitutes high property taxes, IMO.)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;No E-rate (although I&#039;m working on that).  No state money.  No federal money.  Nothing from the sales tax, nothing from gasoline taxes -- the money comes &lt;i&gt;ONLY&lt;/i&gt; from property taxes.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It has been argued that we owe non-taxpayers nothing at all.  Zip, zilch, nada.  Don&#039;t even let them in the doors.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;However, cooler heads have prevailed and I hope will continue to prevail.  We participate in state-wide reciprocal borrowing, and we&#039;re one of the few &quot;large&quot; libraries to do so (the only one in Eastern Idaho).  Idaho Falls PL does not participate, Boise Public Library does not participate...because they feel that non-residents would descend like a plague of locusts, take everything they own, and leave nothing for the taxpayers (yeah, yeah, I know, I&#039;ve heard that in four states for 30+ years, but facts don&#039;t seem to change anyone&#039;s mind).  Heck, there are some libraries out here (which shall remain nameless) that don&#039;t even lend on ILL, even though they DO borrow.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This ain&#039;t the East or even the Midwest.  It ain&#039;t California (yet!) and it ain&#039;t Utah.  If you&#039;d like to help change it, why not take a job out here and work at it?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Mike Doellman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>100% of the money we receive is from from property taxes.  (Currently there is a revolt against high property taxes in Idaho and the Governor has called a special session of the Legislature to &#8220;repair&#8221; the property tax system.  Frankly, Idaho doesn&#8217;t have a clue about what constitutes high property taxes, IMO.)</p>
<p>No E-rate (although I&#8217;m working on that).  No state money.  No federal money.  Nothing from the sales tax, nothing from gasoline taxes &#8212; the money comes <i>ONLY</i> from property taxes.</p>
<p>It has been argued that we owe non-taxpayers nothing at all.  Zip, zilch, nada.  Don&#8217;t even let them in the doors.</p>
<p>However, cooler heads have prevailed and I hope will continue to prevail.  We participate in state-wide reciprocal borrowing, and we&#8217;re one of the few &#8220;large&#8221; libraries to do so (the only one in Eastern Idaho).  Idaho Falls PL does not participate, Boise Public Library does not participate&#8230;because they feel that non-residents would descend like a plague of locusts, take everything they own, and leave nothing for the taxpayers (yeah, yeah, I know, I&#8217;ve heard that in four states for 30+ years, but facts don&#8217;t seem to change anyone&#8217;s mind).  Heck, there are some libraries out here (which shall remain nameless) that don&#8217;t even lend on ILL, even though they DO borrow.</p>
<p>This ain&#8217;t the East or even the Midwest.  It ain&#8217;t California (yet!) and it ain&#8217;t Utah.  If you&#8217;d like to help change it, why not take a job out here and work at it?</p>
<p>Mike Doellman</p>
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		<title>By: Bill S.</title>
		<link>http://travelinlibrarian.info/2006/08/disappointed_14/comment-page-1/#comment-307</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://travelinlibrarian.info/wordpress/2006/08/disappointed.html#comment-307</guid>
		<description>Does that town charge visitors to use their roads ????&lt;br/&gt;Roads would last a lot longer if people did not drive on them !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does that town charge visitors to use their roads ????<br />Roads would last a lot longer if people did not drive on them !</p>
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		<title>By: Kris G.</title>
		<link>http://travelinlibrarian.info/2006/08/disappointed_14/comment-page-1/#comment-305</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Aug 2006 16:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://travelinlibrarian.info/wordpress/2006/08/disappointed.html#comment-305</guid>
		<description>Michael:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Come to Idaho State University&#039;s Oboler Library, located about two miles from Marshall Public. As a part of our community service mission, any visitor may use one of our public terminals, for free. All you need to do is show a photo ID at the circulation desk and receive a visitor log-in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael:</p>
<p>Come to Idaho State University&#8217;s Oboler Library, located about two miles from Marshall Public. As a part of our community service mission, any visitor may use one of our public terminals, for free. All you need to do is show a photo ID at the circulation desk and receive a visitor log-in.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Doellman</title>
		<link>http://travelinlibrarian.info/2006/08/disappointed_14/comment-page-1/#comment-303</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Doellman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Aug 2006 15:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://travelinlibrarian.info/wordpress/2006/08/disappointed.html#comment-303</guid>
		<description>I will be at the CODI Conference in Salt Lake City at the time of the ILA conference in Moscow.  I invite you to come &#039;round to the Library (perhaps after the ILA Conference?) and I&#039;ll even take you to lunch.  If you wish, email me at the email address on the administration page of the website.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;ll have two staff members at ILA, and I&#039;ll have them pop &#039;round to meet you.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Mike Doellman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will be at the CODI Conference in Salt Lake City at the time of the ILA conference in Moscow.  I invite you to come &#8217;round to the Library (perhaps after the ILA Conference?) and I&#8217;ll even take you to lunch.  If you wish, email me at the email address on the administration page of the website.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll have two staff members at ILA, and I&#8217;ll have them pop &#8217;round to meet you.</p>
<p>Mike Doellman</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://travelinlibrarian.info/2006/08/disappointed_14/comment-page-1/#comment-301</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Aug 2006 03:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://travelinlibrarian.info/wordpress/2006/08/disappointed.html#comment-301</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad to hear that there was a terminal available for visitors to check their e-mail at no charge. Had that been listed in the policy notice, I still would have had issue with the charging portion of it, but maybe not as much had that option been conveyed to visitors.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Also, I would like to let you know that I will be attending the upcoming Idaho library conference in Moscow this October and would enjoy the chance to meet you. You&#039;ll be able to find me in the BCR booth for most of the conference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad to hear that there was a terminal available for visitors to check their e-mail at no charge. Had that been listed in the policy notice, I still would have had issue with the charging portion of it, but maybe not as much had that option been conveyed to visitors.</p>
<p>Also, I would like to let you know that I will be attending the upcoming Idaho library conference in Moscow this October and would enjoy the chance to meet you. You&#8217;ll be able to find me in the BCR booth for most of the conference.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Doellman</title>
		<link>http://travelinlibrarian.info/2006/08/disappointed_14/comment-page-1/#comment-299</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Doellman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 20:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://travelinlibrarian.info/wordpress/2006/08/disappointed.html#comment-299</guid>
		<description>What I failed to mention (and most certainly should have) is that at the time we had six (6) PCs available for public Internet access.  That number has been increased since then, and will very soon be increased again.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;We have had, since shortly after the policy was put into place, had a seperate, unmoderated and &quot;un-sign-up-able&quot; PC available which &lt;i&gt;anyone&lt;/i&gt; could and can use for 15 minutes to check their email.  This was the use to which most &quot;tourists&quot; put their Internet access, and we did our best to accomodate that.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In short, it wasn&#039;t as bad as it appears.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;What wasn&#039;t mentioned either was the permanent exhibit of paintings (including a 350-year-old Japanese Ema painting) and photographs (including those of Jerry Garcia, Janis Joplin and others) the Library houses, the new Book Wagon (pop over to www.marshallpl.org and take a look at the only one of its kind in in the US, as far as we know), and other things we&#039;re doing.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But the Internet access questions brings up, at least in my mind, larger issues.  Issues like, &quot;What ARE the core functions of a public library and how can we meet them?&quot;  &quot;When do we realize that libraries can&#039;t be everything to everybody and, as Herb White has suggested, we learn to say a firm &quot;NO!&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I failed to mention (and most certainly should have) is that at the time we had six (6) PCs available for public Internet access.  That number has been increased since then, and will very soon be increased again.</p>
<p>We have had, since shortly after the policy was put into place, had a seperate, unmoderated and &#8220;un-sign-up-able&#8221; PC available which <i>anyone</i> could and can use for 15 minutes to check their email.  This was the use to which most &#8220;tourists&#8221; put their Internet access, and we did our best to accomodate that.</p>
<p>In short, it wasn&#8217;t as bad as it appears.</p>
<p>What wasn&#8217;t mentioned either was the permanent exhibit of paintings (including a 350-year-old Japanese Ema painting) and photographs (including those of Jerry Garcia, Janis Joplin and others) the Library houses, the new Book Wagon (pop over to <a href="http://www.marshallpl.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.marshallpl.org</a> and take a look at the only one of its kind in in the US, as far as we know), and other things we&#8217;re doing.</p>
<p>But the Internet access questions brings up, at least in my mind, larger issues.  Issues like, &#8220;What ARE the core functions of a public library and how can we meet them?&#8221;  &#8220;When do we realize that libraries can&#8217;t be everything to everybody and, as Herb White has suggested, we learn to say a firm &#8220;NO!&#8221;?</p>
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